IT'S TIME FOR ISRAEL TO RESPECT THE '67 BORDER AGREEMENT.

["RIVERS"]

Nice speech by Obama today, setting a tone (not policy) for a UN vote on Palestinian State coming-up in September. I agree with Obama that Israel should abide by the original settlement terms before the '6 day war'.

Israel has been unnecessary 'coddled' by the US for too many decades. They agreed to terms, then made settlements in other peoples lands...and then claim 'woe is us' when the bombs rain upon them. 40 + years of that bull-shit is over I hope.

Obama is showing a little leadership lately...I give credit when due.

[AmpleSound]

A little leadership? What a crock, turn your back on God's people and fail.  That's that....  Believe it or not it's shown throughout history.  Besides it's more of a religious mess than political. 

["RIVERS"]

A little leadership? What a crock, turn your back on God's people and fail.  That's that....  Believe it or not it's shown throughout history.  Besides it's more of a religious mess than political. 

Who are "GODS PEOPLE"?. Seriously man. The folks that blow-up buildings in the name of 'God' aka Allah?. Any people who claim to be the sole son of 'God' are I WILL dare turn a cold shoulder to..because that is not true.

No, it's become time to face realities. The US policy regarding Israel is out dated and frowned upon by the World in general. The Israelis have been persecutor's for many decades. They keep claiming all they want is peace...yet are notorious in creating settlements upon lands that don't don't belong to them,  then are hyper aggressive to defend such land that does not belong to them. The Israelis then 'cry boo-woo' and toss bombs into Palestinian settlements as 'revenge'. The Israelis are the problem.

The US has, for some reason co-operated for decades (falsely thinking that Israel is some 'key to the Middle-East')...that is about to change.
Israel is pretty worthless, no real strategic value, the politics  suck, the hard-line Government even more so.  I say we , as a people say..."FUCK OFF ISRAEL", YOUR WORTHLESS IN 2011.

[Poe]

Land claims and border claims are always iffy.  What land really belongs to anyone?  NONE of that land belongs to Israel if we go by modern laws.  They were not revolutionists, they were insurrectionists which is strictly prohibited by international law.  It's the same international law being used to continue fighting in Iraq even though there are A LOT less insurrectionists there than there were in Greater Syria in 1948.

The West Bank and the Gaza strip were taken by Israel in battle.  Believe it or not, by international law they have a much more sound claim to them than they do for "Israel" proper.

[Poe]

Oh, and Ample, a figment can't have a people.  It's the other way around.

["RIVERS"]

Land claims and border claims are always iffy.  What land really belongs to anyone?  NONE of that land belongs to Israel if we go by modern laws.  They were not revolutionists, they were insurrectionists which is strictly prohibited by international law.  It's the same international law being used to continue fighting in Iraq even though there are A LOT less insurrectionists there than there were in Greater Syria in 1948.

The West Bank and the Gaza strip were taken by Israel in battle.  Believe it or not, by international law they have a much more sound claim to them than they do for "Israel" proper.

Oh crap...pretty benign statement from 'Poe'. I was actually hoping for your Anti-Jew statements your famous for...just for good conversation, if nothing else.

["RIVERS"]

Land claims and border claims are always iffy.  What land really belongs to anyone?  NONE of that land belongs to Israel if we go by modern laws.  They were not revolutionists, they were insurrectionists which is strictly prohibited by international law.  It's the same international law being used to continue fighting in Iraq even though there are A LOT less insurrectionists there than there were in Greater Syria in 1948.

The West Bank and the Gaza strip were taken by Israel in battle.  Believe it or not, by international law they have a much more sound claim to them than they do for "Israel" proper.

Please, Israel got handed thier little strip of land...Then they got aggressive and started trouble every way possible, any way they could/can. It is 2011. Israel needs to start being treated like the little impudent child they thy are (as per thier role in the Middle East).

It is time that the US start telling them (YES ; telling the Israelis) that they need to change thier ways, period.

although I don't always agree with Isreali politics, just because the rest of the world believes or feels some certain way doesn't make it right!
The US needs to stand for what we feel is right, not what someone else tells us to feel...
And the GAZA strip was won in battle, as Poe points out, which is how most boundaries acknowledged today were formed- some battle at some point in the past, frequently around some significant geographic feature, such as rivers and lakes- which usually also contributed to desirability because of transport or availability of some resource...
I don't agree with many  Isreali policies and/or actions, but they do have some admirable traits in their culture.
And for us to chastise them, we must first ensure that is REALLY what Americans want!

[AmpleSound]

Oh, and Ample, a figment can't have a people.  It's the other way around.

Poe, unless you've died and come back, then maybe you'd know.  Since I'm 99.9999999% sure you haven't, then I would think you could be a better person and share your reasons for disbelief rather than gawk at someone for their Faith.  Yes Faith is blind, though it's a path of interest and lack of deceit. 

Maybe you just missed the signs, or your heart is just too bitter to accept Faith.  God is great, man is of flesh not to be trusted.  That's not saying people shouldn't be trusted, just that most are out for themselves rather than others.

["RIVERS"]

although I don't always agree with Isreali politics, just because the rest of the world believes or feels some certain way doesn't make it right!
The US needs to stand for what we feel is right, not what someone else tells us to feel...
And the GAZA strip was won in battle, as Poe points out, which is how most boundaries acknowledged today were formed- some battle at some point in the past, frequently around some significant geographic feature, such as rivers and lakes- which usually also contributed to desirability because of transport or availability of some resource...
I don't agree with many  Isreali policies and/or actions, but they do have some admirable traits in their culture.
And for us to chastise them, we must first ensure that is REALLY what Americans want!

Negative. The US (meaning "We the People") need to stand up for what is JUST. Standing-up for what Israel "won" in Gaza has got the World how far in 43 years?. BULLSHIT!

It is time for Peace. It is time to stop support for an Israeli State that is aggressive and have illegally crossed borders and has intentionally set-up settlements in areas that do not belong to thier Sovereignty. This needs to stop before people can talk peace.

speak softly, yet carry a big stick...
We can stand for peace, and justice, and I agree with the concepts but disagree that the world as a whole accepts them
As I stated, we need to determine what Americans want, not just what Rivers wants
I didn't say we should- or should NOT- support Isreal in Gaza, simply pointed out that historically there is no difference with Gaza and Libya, or Egypt, or even the US!
The land was fought over, and WON in battle

[Poe]

Oh crap...pretty benign statement from 'Poe'. I was actually hoping for your Anti-Jew statements your famous for...just for good conversation, if nothing else.

I'm not anti-<any people>, never have been and never could be.  I dislike Israel, hate it even.  I also hated the Soviet Union, nothing at all against Russians though.  Sometimes I hate the USA.

[Poe]

Poe, unless you've died and come back, then maybe you'd know.  Since I'm 99.9999999% sure you haven't, then I would think you could be a better person and share your reasons for disbelief rather than gawk at someone for their Faith.  Yes Faith is blind, though it's a path of interest and lack of deceit. 

Maybe you just missed the signs, or your heart is just too bitter to accept Faith.  God is great, man is of flesh not to be trusted.  That's not saying people shouldn't be trusted, just that most are out for themselves rather than others.

A thing cannot be regarded as known until it's disproven, Ample.  It's the other way around.  You don't know that all tabby cats don't have green polka dots when no one is looking at them.  Do you have faith in that?  I can tell you this, it's much more likely than talking snakes and eagles pulling chariots into a kingdom in the sky.  God is a great figment of human imagination.

[AmpleSound]

A thing cannot be regarded as known until it's disproven, Ample.  It's the other way around.  You don't know that all tabby cats don't have green polka dots when no one is looking at them.  Do you have faith in that?  I can tell you this, it's much more likely than talking snakes and eagles pulling chariots into a kingdom in the sky.  God is a great figment of human imagination.

Oh come on now you can't come up with anything better than that ridiculous statement?  You show me a mammal with natural green hair then I'll consider the BS that statement brings to the table.  If you want to play poker then ante up, cause that's about as old as the fat lady that's about to sing....  I can easily get a camera on any tabby and disprove that, and that I have Faith in!  Faith doesn't necessarily come from a book or what you're taught.  It can easily come from the heart...   

[Poe]

Oh come on now you can't come up with anything better than that ridiculous statement?  You show me a mammal with natural green hair then I'll consider the BS that statement brings to the table.  If you want to play poker then ante up, cause that's about as old as the fat lady that's about to sing....  I can easily get a camera on any tabby and disprove that, and that I have Faith in!  Faith doesn't necessarily come from a book or what you're taught.  It can easily come from the heart...   

A camera is looking, doesn't count.  That's the point, it cannot be disproven no matter what, so prove it's not true.  You want me to show you a mammal with green hair?  I want you to show me ANYTHING supernatural.  Just one thing.  That's all I'm asking, not for another example of a god.  Just one supernatural thing.  Supernatural is an oxymoron, it is an impossibility.  Natural by definition means a thing which exists.  It is impossible to more than exist.  If there were a god it would be natural.  But don't worry, there isn't.

To believe a thing is more likely because many other people believe the same thing is one of the principal logical fallacies.  Logic is what separates people from cattle.